Lyn Roberts: That came together at the time of the National Tobacco Campaign. There was also a Quitline Coordinators’ Group, which I seem to recall was not very well co-ordinated.

Harley Stanton: One of the issues around that in terms of current operation is that often there can be some reticence on the part of states wanting to move forward, as we have in Tasmania, because they don’t want to move ahead of what the Tobacco Policy Officers’ Group are saying.

Andrew Herington: I wanted to reflect that it’s much harder for bureaucrats to be campaigners (these days). You’re often reliant on having a minister pushing the issue forward or prepared to accept the advice that’s being offered.

Some public servants are in sufficiently high statutory positions, like say Mike (Daube) has been at times, to be a public figure in their own right. And Kate (McAllister) brought an energy to her role of implementing Quit that actually made it possible. And there are public servants who any big policy initiative is dependent on. Because it doesn’t matter what the intent of the legislation is: If it’s not effectively delivered, there’s no point.

Mike Daube: I’ve a couple of observations to make. One is about bureaucrats –it was much easier in the 1980s to be a public campaigner as a senior bureaucrat than it is now. It’s pretty much impossible now to do the sort of thing that we did. You do it in different ways. But in the 1980s as senior bureaucrats we were able to take a strong, public position on various issues. As Assistant Commissioner of Health I was able to pretty well go for my life on tobacco. Fifteen or twenty years later as Director-General of Health, I was absolutely bound by constraints. The world has changed since some of the ‘great politicians’ of the 1980s let us have our head.

Second, in defence of a couple of colleagues here, the first recommendation on plain packaging came in the 1992 report that David (Hill) and Ron (Borland) put together. It was that fabulous report for the MCDS.[164] So that was ahead of that 1993 (National Cancer Prevention Policy) recommendation.

David Hill: I’ve a question. As an outsider in government, Mike, I very quickly come to the perception that this is a ‘can-do bureaucrat’ or this is a ‘can’t do bureaucrat’. (Laughter) Are there types of people who you just think will never engage?

Mike Daube: Absolutely, I think we’ve all come across that as well. And it almost doesn’t matter what the level is. Sometimes we forget that when dealing with bureaucrats, the senior people - a bit like politicians - come and go. Whereas mid-level bureaucrats often stay in the same place and they’re the ones who have the expertise and they keep briefing and so on. And at all levels, you get the ‘can do’ ones.

In the Commonwealth as in other bureaucracies, there are times when we’re blessed with terrific bureaucrats who want to make things happen. I remember the times in the Commonwealth back in the 1980s when Nigel and I would go to meetings about running campaigns and they would tell us the ministers had told them to meet with us. And they would tell us as little as possible and they’d run absolutely ratshit television ads because they didn’t want to listen.

David, you hit on some good people to work with for a period with the (Quit) campaign (in Victoria). Then maybe there were some downs, when there were more constraints. The same thing happens at various stages. Again, to come back to Nigel, David White was the eighth (Health) Minister he went to, and when he got some empathy from David, he grabbed that and ran with it. Same with bureaucrats; you find the good ‘can-do bureaucrats’ and grab them and work with them.

Rohan Greenland: Some can surprise .

Meredith Carter: You make an interesting point. Sure, there are some ‘can do’ bureaucrats and some not ‘can do’ bureaucrats. In terms of getting the 1987 legislation passed, a specific head of steam was got up because of David White and his willingness to pursue this. He basically instructed the department to create a special team. He didn’t go through any of the usual channels.

Mike Daube: Also, wasn’t he the minister who was quoted as saying that the best thing to do with senior bureaucrats is to shove them down an open lift shaft.

Meredith Carter: He did have an interesting relationship with the head of department. (Laughter) But it is interesting that different types of skill sets were brought in. People with generalist abilities were brought in to a team that Andrew (Herington) led. A common theme for some of us was having a campaign background.

Mike Daube: And if we’re crediting particular groups. Sometimes the people who work in Minister’s offices can make a huge difference.

John Cain: Another thing to remember is that the political climate ebbs and flows according to where you are in the electoral cycle. A government is at its strongest in the first 12 months after it’s elected. If it’s put out another party it’s even stronger. Your power ebbs until you come to the end of your term, you’re taking it on all sides, from the interest groups, the bureaucracy, your own party and the factions. When you’re re-elected, it’s all replenished. That’s what you’ve got to remember, a government is at its strongest in the first year after it’s elected or re-elected

Witness to the History of Australian Medicine